GDC Online Q&A: Gordon Walton, Matt Firor
This article originally appeared as a two-part series on ZAM on Oct. 4 and Oct. 5, 2010.
GDC Online will be held in Austin from Oct. 5-8, so Editor-in-Chief Darryl Gangloff sat down with these two industry veterans to discuss the convention and the past, present and future of online gaming.
Many of you may be familiar with Game Developers Conference Austin, a major game trade show that's been predominantly themed around online gaming during its 8-year run. This spring, GDC Austin was renamed GDC Online to reflect its focus on online game development. MMO fans rejoice!
Of course, online gaming has taken many different forms over the years. From triple-A MMOs like World of Warcraft to Zynga's social games on Facebook, the Internet keeps all players connected. GDC Online will cover this theme and more during its run from Oct. 5-8 at the Austin Convention Center, so we decided to sit down with two members of the convention's advisory board to talk about all the topics that will be discussed at the conference.
We got the chance to talk with Gordon Walton, the vice president and co-studio general manager of Bioware Austin, and Matt Firor, the president of ZeniMax Online Studios, about the past, present and future of online gaming. Also, be sure to check out live streaming coverage of the convention featuring ZAM's Mike B. aka Fony.
ZAM: Thanks for taking the time to talk with us about GDC Online! Please introduce yourselves to our readers.
Gordon Walton: I've been on the board since the beginning of the show when we first started in Austin. I think that we just wanted to have a show that was more focused on the online space from the get go. While the main GDC covers online, it's just one thing among many that gets covered. We wanted something where we could focus not only on the content, but on the audience as well. We wanted to bring together an audience that includes developers who work in the online space, regardless of what areas of the online space they're in. At the time, about 8 years ago, the hot thing was MMOs, but we knew there was more than that coming. And now it's much broader, which is exciting. Oh, and I work for BioWare.
Matt Firor: I'm Matt Firor, the president of ZeniMax Online. I was on the board of the original show, and then I took a hiatus for a year or two, and I started back about three years ago or so. I've seen the show grow from its pretty hardcore MMO roots to, as Gordon was saying, a new interconnected philosophy where there are a lot more online games out there now than when we started. The show's grown along with the industry and now it represents a bunch of different types of games and projects across the entire spectrum from Zynga games on Facebook to huge, high budget triple-A MMOs.
ZAM: As you mentioned, GDC Austin is now known as GDC Online. You're both veterans of the industry. How has online gaming evolved since you started working in the industry?
Matt: Well they have graphics now! My first online game was 1988 which was text-based. It wasn't a MUD, but it was a text-based roleplaying game. So it fits the generic term of MUD, but it wasn't a literal MUD. Obviously the industry has changed hugely since then. It's been in the past five to six years that it's really taken off, especially in the past two to three years, with the lower budget, more casual social media-type games have really blown the lid off the industry. I'm more in the traditional triple-A MMO field with Dark Age of Camelot and the Camelot games and so forth, but I've really seen the industry change from essentially nothing to retail box, subscription-based triple-A MMOs, to a mix of all the casual social media games along with the high-budget MMOs.
Gordon: When I first got started in the business I actually started online because I was playing on the PLATO terminals, playing multiplayer games in the '70s. We didn't have the connectivity when it moved to micro-computers, and for me it's just come full circle. Now it's back to what gaming should have been in the first place, which is always connected to each other. I think that, like Matt, I started working on online games exclusively in the mid-'90s and from there I just didn't think fundamentally that single-player games were all that interesting to build anymore. I've just been waiting, frankly, for it to branch even further out. Now this huge social gaming thing is just awesome. Basically online is no longer a feature, it's a requirement.
ZAM: That actually branches into my next question. The keynote is by Brian Reynolds, the chief game designer at Zynga. There appears to be a big social gaming push at GDC this year. How do you feel games like FarmVille and Mafia Wars tie into the MMO world as a whole?
Gordon: Anything that makes the audience bigger is awesome. One type of player may enjoy one type of entertainment, but it doesn't invalidate different types of play for different types of players. A lot of people don't have the time or energy for the more intensive games.
Matt: A few years ago, the term MMO gamer kind of went away and was replaced by gamer. Really, people just play games, and since most games have some sort of online component the distinction is kind of lost on whether you're playing Star Wars: The Old Republic or FrontierVille. They're games. They're fun games. Yes, they're online. They have different revenue models. They're really just playing a game. And I think that's where it's going. The distinctions are starting to be lost on gamers as to what genre they're actually playing.
ZAM: In a similar vein, iPhone and iPad apps and games are also a major topic of discussion at GDC. How do you see gaming branching out into this specific mobile format?
Gordon: Sure, the mobile platforms are getting much more capable, and it's part of people's lifestyles. They're going to use items in their lifestyles to do stuff. Whenever they have free time, they're going to be playing.
Matt: When it comes down to it, it's just another platform. It just so happens that the ones you described, the iPhone, iPod and iPad, are by their nature online devices. It just naturally progresses that the games that are on there tend to be online fun, casual games. It's just another platform for people to play games on.
ZAM: Do you see it as a platform that will feature more intensive games, or one that will act more as an extension of the online gaming experience through applications?
Matt: It'll happen eventually. I don't think this current generation will support the games of the level that Gordon and I are working on, but you can play full games on the iPad right now. There are MMOs out there that let you chat with players and play online. The graphics aren't as intense as they are in the bigger MMOs, but they are certainly viable, fun games.
Gordon: Every platform has things it's better at and things it's not as good at. Whatever platform you're playing on, the players want to feel like the game is really optimized for that platform. You're not going to do the same kind of game on the Nintendo DS as you're going to do on an iPad, even though they're both kind of handheld formats. The interface conventions are different and the consumer expectations are different. So I just think that every platform is its own world where you can have entertainment happen. How that entertainment is going to happen exactly is rarely exactly like another platform. It's going to be some blend.
ZAM: That's a good way of putting it. You could be on Facebook playing a game that's quite different from a triple-A MMO, but it's still a fun online game that lets you interact with other players.
Gordon: A lot of the gaming elements are common. The delivery mechanism may be different, but the elements aren't going to be all that different.
ZAM: One of the trends at GDC immediately caught my eye: "Core MMOs still exist, and big budget bets are still out there." Star Wars: The Old Republic and ZeniMax are specifically mentioned, so this is your area of expertise. What can players look forward to with triple-A MMOs in the future?
Matt: Triple-A MMOs are a market segment just like there are plenty of other market segments. It just happens that the market segment we're in is dominated by World of Warcraft right now. So to compete in that market you've got to make a game that's comparable on a polished and graphic scale to World of Warcraft. I hate to throw out the words "World of Warcraft" all the time, but there's an entire generation of online players who look at World of Warcraft as their definition of a triple-A MMO. It defines the level of what we have to do to compete. That makes it difficult to compete, obviously. You need a lot of resources. It just means that a lot of game developers have gone the simpler route of not competing with it at all and making lighter, casual games with micro-transactions and so forth.
That market segment of subscription-based triple-A games, probably with some micro-transactions revenue support, is still a market, and a lot of people are competing in that market. I can think of games that just came out recently; Aion came out, Warhammer Online came out, Star Wars: The Old Republic is going to come out at some point, Guild Wars 2 is in that market, there are a bunch of games that are in that market segment right now. It's still very viable, and people are still competing in it.
Gordon: I think there are a lot of niche possibilities, too. You say triple-A MMOs compete with WoW, but I don't think it necessarily means that. We're really talking about the client-delivered subscription-based (or primarily subscription-based) market that still exists outside of WoW. WoW kind of overshadows everything else currently because if its dominance and the fact that it brought so many new players into the actual genre of play. The last time that has happened was when EverQuest got really popular and brought a few million people in. Now there are tens of millions of people who play WoW. It raised the audience level pretty dramatically.
ZAM: You both mentioned micro-transactions and subscription-based models. And of course there's the free-to-play model as well. Where do you see these models going? Do you see one becoming more prevalent than the others? Do you have a preference?
Gordon: I prefer anything that lets me build games.
Matt: The payment mechanism may vary, but the games still need to be fun and interesting, as well as attract a community of gamers who are willing to pay for them. At that level, the mechanism at which you charge the players is basically immaterial.
Gordon: I think we're all for any mechanism that lets us monetize the audience appropriately and lets the investment you make in the game pay off. That's how you get to build new games. Our business is a 95%/5%, if not a 98%/2%, business. There are very few hits, and a lot of games don't quite make it. In the end, the hits have to pay for continuing the medium.
ZAM: I was looking at some of the trends at GDC Online and noticed that a lot of publishers will be talking about their foray into 3D technology. I doubt we'll see this technology utilized anytime soon in MMOs, but what are your thoughts?
Matt: That is something that isn't completely on my radar since I don't think it's going to happen for a few years. But I think with any new technology, some of it is going to trickle into every part of the computer experience, including MMOs. It might be years and years and years. It's not something I'm thinking about now, but I'm sure it will be someday.
Gordon: I'm with Matt. Most technology plays are more blow than go in the big scheme of things. The proof is in the pudding. When there's an installed base, that's when we get interested. We're not really chasing the technology with online games, we're chasing audiences. If it's only the earliest possible adopters, there's a market there for particular people to chase. But Matt and I are looking to reach more people, and the way to reach more people is to not chase the technology. It doesn't mean there's not a place for it, because you've got to start somewhere to get to a place where it has an audience.
ZAM: Good point. You don't want to base your whole MMO around a technology that's not going to stick around.
Gordon: Matt and I are pretty jaded about technology trends (laughs). We've chased them and been burned multiple times.
Matt: We spent a good seven years making games for the Internet when the Internet wasn't ubiquitous, and that wasn't as fantastic as it could have been. Right now there are so many people with strong broadband Internet connections that we don't have to worry about that anymore, but it wasn't so long ago that the Internet was the 3D of its day. We've been through that.
ZAM: Let's jump into the GDC Online Awards. This is the first time you're hosting these awards, and it seems like a great way to showcase online games. How did it come about?
Gordon: I think it was just time. In previous years we shied away from it because there are so many awards out there, but it feels like the other awards aren't really covering the online space that well. We thought it was time to step up to the plate. We're basically the second-largest show in all of North America for the gaming business, so it felt like it was time to take this on.
ZAM: Ultima Online will be receiving the Hall of Fame Award. Gordon, you were at one time the VP/Executive Producer in charge of managing the game. What are your thoughts on Ultima Online receiving this award?
Gordon: I was only in that position for a couple years. Ultima Online was the first breakout, the first game that got into the public mind. That's what really makes UO stand out. Suddenly people realized this was a viable, commercial medium. It showed you can have a retail hit to go with an online game. It was huge at the time. It basically generated a ton of investment money into the medium, which is what its real importance is in my mind besides the design. The design stuff behind it was very important, but so is the fact that it actually generated a business. Both Matt and I were doing online games for years before that, and getting investment money to build games when we knew that they could be awesome if we could just build them was very difficult.
Matt: Yeah, I think in the years between late 1995 and 2001 we released 12 to 13 games just to make ends meet. We tried a whole bunch of things before we finally got funding for Dark Age of Camelot. It was Ultima's success and EverQuest's success which led to the floodgates of funding being opened finally and other projects finally being able to be created.
ZAM: Since you both just talked about your past projects, I wanted to give you the opportunity to talk about your current projects. Matt, can you tell us anything about your projects with your studio?
Matt: I'm working on some projects and they will launch sometime this century.
ZAM: Fair enough! Gordon, BioWare has so much coming out, but the major game on most players' radars is Star Wars: The Old Republic. Can you give us any updates?
Gordon: We are getting toward the end of it, which is the good news. BioWare is known for extended periods of polish to really make the game all it can be. What you'll see us doing between now and next year is really working on making sure that we have not just a game, but hopefully the right game that really delivers not only on the BioWare brand values but on the Star Wars brand values. The shipping window is in the spring of next year. It' been quite a challenging project. I've never done one this big, and I don't think very many people have, either. If you think about the Mass Effect trilogy of games, we're basically building eight of those in one game. We're having fun with it, but it's also extremely challenging.
ZAM: Well I know we're looking forward to it! To wrap things up, what is the one panel or trend at GDC Online that really draws your attention when you look at this massive schedule?
Matt: I'm a huge Brian Reynolds fan, so I'm definitely looking forward to his keynote. There's also a panel that talks about how your major work starts once you actually launch a game in the online space. I'm looking forward to that as well. Tim Cain, who is one of the guys who worked on the original Fallout games back in the day, is also speaking. He's at Carbine Studios right now and will be doing a lecture on storytelling in MMOs.
Gordon: I love the Live track that we put together. The heart and soul of an online game business is being able to do live well. You can build the best game in the world, but if you can't run it well then you're cruisin' for a bruisin'. All online games are an ongoing thing. Audiences want to be entertained on an ongoing basis. Just throwing it out there and letting them have it won't work. You have to do a lot more than that. I love the Live track that we have this year.
On a personal level, I'm more interested in seeing not only the design parts of the social gaming experience but also some of the technologies and how they're delivering games on that scale. It's fascinating to think about going to the next level and thinking, “I don't have millions of people to entertain, I have tens of millions.” How's that going to actually work? If you know a lot about the technology behind it, you know it actually is rocket science on some level. It's fun to see how people are approaching those kinds of problems to put this many people in one place at one time. There are going to be more sessions to go to than I'm going to have time to see, I'm sure. There's a ton of great information being compiled in one place on our business.
ZAM: Thank you so much for taking to the time to talk with us about the convention!
Gordon: Not a problem!
Matt: Thanks for having us!
GDC Online will be held in Austin from Oct. 5-8, so Editor-in-Chief Darryl Gangloff sat down with these two industry veterans to discuss the convention and the past, present and future of online gaming.
Many of you may be familiar with Game Developers Conference Austin, a major game trade show that's been predominantly themed around online gaming during its 8-year run. This spring, GDC Austin was renamed GDC Online to reflect its focus on online game development. MMO fans rejoice!
Of course, online gaming has taken many different forms over the years. From triple-A MMOs like World of Warcraft to Zynga's social games on Facebook, the Internet keeps all players connected. GDC Online will cover this theme and more during its run from Oct. 5-8 at the Austin Convention Center, so we decided to sit down with two members of the convention's advisory board to talk about all the topics that will be discussed at the conference.
We got the chance to talk with Gordon Walton, the vice president and co-studio general manager of Bioware Austin, and Matt Firor, the president of ZeniMax Online Studios, about the past, present and future of online gaming. Also, be sure to check out live streaming coverage of the convention featuring ZAM's Mike B. aka Fony.
ZAM: Thanks for taking the time to talk with us about GDC Online! Please introduce yourselves to our readers.
Gordon Walton: I've been on the board since the beginning of the show when we first started in Austin. I think that we just wanted to have a show that was more focused on the online space from the get go. While the main GDC covers online, it's just one thing among many that gets covered. We wanted something where we could focus not only on the content, but on the audience as well. We wanted to bring together an audience that includes developers who work in the online space, regardless of what areas of the online space they're in. At the time, about 8 years ago, the hot thing was MMOs, but we knew there was more than that coming. And now it's much broader, which is exciting. Oh, and I work for BioWare.
Matt Firor: I'm Matt Firor, the president of ZeniMax Online. I was on the board of the original show, and then I took a hiatus for a year or two, and I started back about three years ago or so. I've seen the show grow from its pretty hardcore MMO roots to, as Gordon was saying, a new interconnected philosophy where there are a lot more online games out there now than when we started. The show's grown along with the industry and now it represents a bunch of different types of games and projects across the entire spectrum from Zynga games on Facebook to huge, high budget triple-A MMOs.
ZAM: As you mentioned, GDC Austin is now known as GDC Online. You're both veterans of the industry. How has online gaming evolved since you started working in the industry?
Matt: Well they have graphics now! My first online game was 1988 which was text-based. It wasn't a MUD, but it was a text-based roleplaying game. So it fits the generic term of MUD, but it wasn't a literal MUD. Obviously the industry has changed hugely since then. It's been in the past five to six years that it's really taken off, especially in the past two to three years, with the lower budget, more casual social media-type games have really blown the lid off the industry. I'm more in the traditional triple-A MMO field with Dark Age of Camelot and the Camelot games and so forth, but I've really seen the industry change from essentially nothing to retail box, subscription-based triple-A MMOs, to a mix of all the casual social media games along with the high-budget MMOs.
Gordon: When I first got started in the business I actually started online because I was playing on the PLATO terminals, playing multiplayer games in the '70s. We didn't have the connectivity when it moved to micro-computers, and for me it's just come full circle. Now it's back to what gaming should have been in the first place, which is always connected to each other. I think that, like Matt, I started working on online games exclusively in the mid-'90s and from there I just didn't think fundamentally that single-player games were all that interesting to build anymore. I've just been waiting, frankly, for it to branch even further out. Now this huge social gaming thing is just awesome. Basically online is no longer a feature, it's a requirement.
ZAM: That actually branches into my next question. The keynote is by Brian Reynolds, the chief game designer at Zynga. There appears to be a big social gaming push at GDC this year. How do you feel games like FarmVille and Mafia Wars tie into the MMO world as a whole?
Gordon: Anything that makes the audience bigger is awesome. One type of player may enjoy one type of entertainment, but it doesn't invalidate different types of play for different types of players. A lot of people don't have the time or energy for the more intensive games.
Matt: A few years ago, the term MMO gamer kind of went away and was replaced by gamer. Really, people just play games, and since most games have some sort of online component the distinction is kind of lost on whether you're playing Star Wars: The Old Republic or FrontierVille. They're games. They're fun games. Yes, they're online. They have different revenue models. They're really just playing a game. And I think that's where it's going. The distinctions are starting to be lost on gamers as to what genre they're actually playing.
ZAM: In a similar vein, iPhone and iPad apps and games are also a major topic of discussion at GDC. How do you see gaming branching out into this specific mobile format?
Gordon: Sure, the mobile platforms are getting much more capable, and it's part of people's lifestyles. They're going to use items in their lifestyles to do stuff. Whenever they have free time, they're going to be playing.
Matt: When it comes down to it, it's just another platform. It just so happens that the ones you described, the iPhone, iPod and iPad, are by their nature online devices. It just naturally progresses that the games that are on there tend to be online fun, casual games. It's just another platform for people to play games on.
ZAM: Do you see it as a platform that will feature more intensive games, or one that will act more as an extension of the online gaming experience through applications?
Matt: It'll happen eventually. I don't think this current generation will support the games of the level that Gordon and I are working on, but you can play full games on the iPad right now. There are MMOs out there that let you chat with players and play online. The graphics aren't as intense as they are in the bigger MMOs, but they are certainly viable, fun games.
Gordon: Every platform has things it's better at and things it's not as good at. Whatever platform you're playing on, the players want to feel like the game is really optimized for that platform. You're not going to do the same kind of game on the Nintendo DS as you're going to do on an iPad, even though they're both kind of handheld formats. The interface conventions are different and the consumer expectations are different. So I just think that every platform is its own world where you can have entertainment happen. How that entertainment is going to happen exactly is rarely exactly like another platform. It's going to be some blend.
ZAM: That's a good way of putting it. You could be on Facebook playing a game that's quite different from a triple-A MMO, but it's still a fun online game that lets you interact with other players.
Gordon: A lot of the gaming elements are common. The delivery mechanism may be different, but the elements aren't going to be all that different.
ZAM: One of the trends at GDC immediately caught my eye: "Core MMOs still exist, and big budget bets are still out there." Star Wars: The Old Republic and ZeniMax are specifically mentioned, so this is your area of expertise. What can players look forward to with triple-A MMOs in the future?
Matt: Triple-A MMOs are a market segment just like there are plenty of other market segments. It just happens that the market segment we're in is dominated by World of Warcraft right now. So to compete in that market you've got to make a game that's comparable on a polished and graphic scale to World of Warcraft. I hate to throw out the words "World of Warcraft" all the time, but there's an entire generation of online players who look at World of Warcraft as their definition of a triple-A MMO. It defines the level of what we have to do to compete. That makes it difficult to compete, obviously. You need a lot of resources. It just means that a lot of game developers have gone the simpler route of not competing with it at all and making lighter, casual games with micro-transactions and so forth.
That market segment of subscription-based triple-A games, probably with some micro-transactions revenue support, is still a market, and a lot of people are competing in that market. I can think of games that just came out recently; Aion came out, Warhammer Online came out, Star Wars: The Old Republic is going to come out at some point, Guild Wars 2 is in that market, there are a bunch of games that are in that market segment right now. It's still very viable, and people are still competing in it.
Gordon: I think there are a lot of niche possibilities, too. You say triple-A MMOs compete with WoW, but I don't think it necessarily means that. We're really talking about the client-delivered subscription-based (or primarily subscription-based) market that still exists outside of WoW. WoW kind of overshadows everything else currently because if its dominance and the fact that it brought so many new players into the actual genre of play. The last time that has happened was when EverQuest got really popular and brought a few million people in. Now there are tens of millions of people who play WoW. It raised the audience level pretty dramatically.
ZAM: You both mentioned micro-transactions and subscription-based models. And of course there's the free-to-play model as well. Where do you see these models going? Do you see one becoming more prevalent than the others? Do you have a preference?
Gordon: I prefer anything that lets me build games.
Matt: The payment mechanism may vary, but the games still need to be fun and interesting, as well as attract a community of gamers who are willing to pay for them. At that level, the mechanism at which you charge the players is basically immaterial.
Gordon: I think we're all for any mechanism that lets us monetize the audience appropriately and lets the investment you make in the game pay off. That's how you get to build new games. Our business is a 95%/5%, if not a 98%/2%, business. There are very few hits, and a lot of games don't quite make it. In the end, the hits have to pay for continuing the medium.
ZAM: I was looking at some of the trends at GDC Online and noticed that a lot of publishers will be talking about their foray into 3D technology. I doubt we'll see this technology utilized anytime soon in MMOs, but what are your thoughts?
Matt: That is something that isn't completely on my radar since I don't think it's going to happen for a few years. But I think with any new technology, some of it is going to trickle into every part of the computer experience, including MMOs. It might be years and years and years. It's not something I'm thinking about now, but I'm sure it will be someday.
Gordon: I'm with Matt. Most technology plays are more blow than go in the big scheme of things. The proof is in the pudding. When there's an installed base, that's when we get interested. We're not really chasing the technology with online games, we're chasing audiences. If it's only the earliest possible adopters, there's a market there for particular people to chase. But Matt and I are looking to reach more people, and the way to reach more people is to not chase the technology. It doesn't mean there's not a place for it, because you've got to start somewhere to get to a place where it has an audience.
ZAM: Good point. You don't want to base your whole MMO around a technology that's not going to stick around.
Gordon: Matt and I are pretty jaded about technology trends (laughs). We've chased them and been burned multiple times.
Matt: We spent a good seven years making games for the Internet when the Internet wasn't ubiquitous, and that wasn't as fantastic as it could have been. Right now there are so many people with strong broadband Internet connections that we don't have to worry about that anymore, but it wasn't so long ago that the Internet was the 3D of its day. We've been through that.
ZAM: Let's jump into the GDC Online Awards. This is the first time you're hosting these awards, and it seems like a great way to showcase online games. How did it come about?
Gordon: I think it was just time. In previous years we shied away from it because there are so many awards out there, but it feels like the other awards aren't really covering the online space that well. We thought it was time to step up to the plate. We're basically the second-largest show in all of North America for the gaming business, so it felt like it was time to take this on.
ZAM: Ultima Online will be receiving the Hall of Fame Award. Gordon, you were at one time the VP/Executive Producer in charge of managing the game. What are your thoughts on Ultima Online receiving this award?
Gordon: I was only in that position for a couple years. Ultima Online was the first breakout, the first game that got into the public mind. That's what really makes UO stand out. Suddenly people realized this was a viable, commercial medium. It showed you can have a retail hit to go with an online game. It was huge at the time. It basically generated a ton of investment money into the medium, which is what its real importance is in my mind besides the design. The design stuff behind it was very important, but so is the fact that it actually generated a business. Both Matt and I were doing online games for years before that, and getting investment money to build games when we knew that they could be awesome if we could just build them was very difficult.
Matt: Yeah, I think in the years between late 1995 and 2001 we released 12 to 13 games just to make ends meet. We tried a whole bunch of things before we finally got funding for Dark Age of Camelot. It was Ultima's success and EverQuest's success which led to the floodgates of funding being opened finally and other projects finally being able to be created.
ZAM: Since you both just talked about your past projects, I wanted to give you the opportunity to talk about your current projects. Matt, can you tell us anything about your projects with your studio?
Matt: I'm working on some projects and they will launch sometime this century.
ZAM: Fair enough! Gordon, BioWare has so much coming out, but the major game on most players' radars is Star Wars: The Old Republic. Can you give us any updates?
Gordon: We are getting toward the end of it, which is the good news. BioWare is known for extended periods of polish to really make the game all it can be. What you'll see us doing between now and next year is really working on making sure that we have not just a game, but hopefully the right game that really delivers not only on the BioWare brand values but on the Star Wars brand values. The shipping window is in the spring of next year. It' been quite a challenging project. I've never done one this big, and I don't think very many people have, either. If you think about the Mass Effect trilogy of games, we're basically building eight of those in one game. We're having fun with it, but it's also extremely challenging.
ZAM: Well I know we're looking forward to it! To wrap things up, what is the one panel or trend at GDC Online that really draws your attention when you look at this massive schedule?
Matt: I'm a huge Brian Reynolds fan, so I'm definitely looking forward to his keynote. There's also a panel that talks about how your major work starts once you actually launch a game in the online space. I'm looking forward to that as well. Tim Cain, who is one of the guys who worked on the original Fallout games back in the day, is also speaking. He's at Carbine Studios right now and will be doing a lecture on storytelling in MMOs.
Gordon: I love the Live track that we put together. The heart and soul of an online game business is being able to do live well. You can build the best game in the world, but if you can't run it well then you're cruisin' for a bruisin'. All online games are an ongoing thing. Audiences want to be entertained on an ongoing basis. Just throwing it out there and letting them have it won't work. You have to do a lot more than that. I love the Live track that we have this year.
On a personal level, I'm more interested in seeing not only the design parts of the social gaming experience but also some of the technologies and how they're delivering games on that scale. It's fascinating to think about going to the next level and thinking, “I don't have millions of people to entertain, I have tens of millions.” How's that going to actually work? If you know a lot about the technology behind it, you know it actually is rocket science on some level. It's fun to see how people are approaching those kinds of problems to put this many people in one place at one time. There are going to be more sessions to go to than I'm going to have time to see, I'm sure. There's a ton of great information being compiled in one place on our business.
ZAM: Thank you so much for taking to the time to talk with us about the convention!
Gordon: Not a problem!
Matt: Thanks for having us!